Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
\nFrom: james@wrs.com (James Moore)
\nSubject: Re: Learning Welsh
\nMessage-ID:
\nSender: news@wrs.com (News Manager)
\nOrganization: Wind River Systems
\nDate: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 00:15:04 GMT
\nLines: 486<\/p>\n
This was sent to welsh-l recently:<\/p>\n
(to get information about welsh-l send “info welsh-l” to
\nlistserv@irlearn.bitnet)<\/p>\n
Resources for adult learners of Welsh
\n ————————————-<\/p>\n
Here’s the latest version of the Welsh learning resources file. This is
\nan edited version of information contributed by various people (on
\nWELSH-L and soc.culture.celtic) concerning resources for adult learners of
\nWelsh. The comments are by various of these contributors. A general
\nacknowledgement is given at the end of this file.<\/p>\n
If anyone can offer additions or corrections to this, I’d be grateful for
\nthe information.<\/p>\n
Briony Williams (briony@cstr.ed.ac.uk)
\n—————————————————————————<\/p>\n
1 GENERAL MATERIALS
\n——————–<\/p>\n
1.1 Welsh Joint Education Committee
\n————————————
\nThe Welsh Joint Education committee has published a pamphlet called “Dysgu
\nCymraeg? – All you need to know about Learning Welsh” which has a lot of
\naddresses. Write to:<\/p>\n
WJEC\/Cyd-bwyllgor Addysg Cymru, 245 Rhodfa’r Gorllewin, Caerdydd\/Cardiff,
\nCymru\/Wales, CF5 2YX, UK.<\/p>\n
1.2 Welsh Books Council
\n————————
\nThe Welsh Books Council\/Cyngor Llyfrau Cymraeg has a couple of leaflets on
\nmaterials for learning Welsh: “Rhestr ddethol o ddeunyddiau ar gyfer
\ndysgu’r Gymraeg\/Select list of materials for learning Welsh” by Miranda
\nMorton & “Rhestr ddethol o lyfrau addas i ddysgwyr\/A select list of books
\nfor Welsh learners” by Jo Knell. Write to:<\/p>\n
Cyngor Llyfrau Cymraeg, Castell Brychan, Abersytwyth, Dyfed, Cymru\/Wales,
\nSY23 2JB, UK.<\/p>\n
‘Llais Llyfrau’ is a quarterly magazine for keeping in
\ntouch with both Welsh language and English language books of Welsh interest.
\nIt is available from the above address.<\/p>\n
—————————————————————————<\/p>\n
2 SELF-STUDY COURSES
\n———————-<\/p>\n
2.1 “Now you’re talking”
\n————————-
\nThere is a multimedia course called “Now you’re talking”, produced partly
\nby S4C (the Welsh TV channel). This is a series of TV programmes, some
\nof which are available on video (both UK and USA format), together with
\nan accompanying workbook, audio tapes, a basic dictionary containing all
\nthe words used plus some, and various other publications (including Welsh
\nChristmas cards!). There are packages for both beginners and improvers.
\nThe address to write to is:<\/p>\n
Acen, “Now you’re talking”, Bocs 4000, Caerdydd\/Cardiff,
\nCymru\/Wales CF5 2XT, UK.<\/p>\n
The first-year package recently cost (in pounds) 27.95 for a work-file set,
\n14.95 for each of 2 sets of audio cassettes, and 17.95 for the video pack.<\/p>\n
Comments:
\n The course teaches both North Welsh and South Welsh variations on vocabulary
\n(though English-speaking learners generally find South Welsh easier – it has
\nfewer vowels). It concentrates on conversational spoken Welsh, rather than
\nthe literary language, and aims to get people talking as soon as possible.
\n The videos provide an excellent introduction to the language, culture and
\nhistory of Wales; each episode is set in a different town and discusses the
\nlocal dialect, history and legends.<\/p>\n
2.2 “Catchphrase”
\n——————
\n“Catchphrase” course (books and audio tapes), published by the BBC and Sain.
\nIn the USA, this is available from Waldenbooks, around $125 (US) for the
\nfirst set in the series.<\/p>\n
To obtain it by post, try contacting the Welsh books council at:
\nY Cyngor Llyfrau Cymraeg, Castell Brychan, Aberystwyth,
\nDyfed, SY23 2JB, WALES. They would also be able to recommend other things.<\/p>\n
BBC Wales\/Cymru, Broadcasting House\/Canolfan y BBC, Llantrisant Road,
\nLlandaff, Cardiff\/Caerdydd, CF5 2YQ, Wales\/Cymru.<\/p>\n
Comment:
\n I have the Catchphrase books and cassettes. They are helpful, but I can’t
\nunderstand why one must listen to Englishmen learning Welsh. I’d much rather
\nhave it all spoken by native Welsh speakers.
\n I’ve seen “Catchphrase” but it didn’t impress me; I’ve heard a tremendous
\namount of good press for “The A B C of Welsh”, a book-and-tapes set, though.<\/p>\n
2.3 “Teach Yourself Welsh”
\n—————————
\n‘Teach Yourself Welsh’, 1991 by T. Rhys Jones (book and audio tape).<\/p>\n
There are now three versions of “Teach Yourself Welsh.” The oldest
\n(now almost impossible to find) teaches literary Welsh. The next edition
\nwas ‘Teach Yourself Living Welsh’, by T. Rhys Jones. This is the version
\nyou can still find in America. The very latest (the 1991 book) is only out
\nin Britain, but comes with an audio cassette.<\/p>\n
Comments:
\n I found it to be very good. The grammar lessons are very light
\nand are followed up immediately by dialogues and practical examples. Very
\nrewarding, understanding the 1st dialogue after the 1st grammar lesson!
\n The audio cassette is very helpful.
\n [Of the newest edition:] Its only problem is that it doesn’t translate
\nthe dialogues anymore, which can be very frustrating.<\/p>\n
————————————————————————-<\/p>\n
3 DICTIONARIES
\n—————<\/p>\n
NB: No Welsh dictionary has any indication of pronunciation.<\/p>\n
3.1 The Collins\/Spurrell Welsh dictionary
\n——————————————
\n‘Spurrell’s Welsh-English Dictionary’, 1991 edn pub HarperCollins Publishers.
\nWelsh\/English, English\/Welsh.
\nISBN 0-00-433549-X<\/p>\n
Small, cheap, handy size, limited number of words.
\nComment:
\n Not very good. It’s about all you can find in your local mall
\nbookstore, though.<\/p>\n
3.2 Y Geiriadur Mawr
\n———————
\n‘Y Geiriadur Mawr’ , ed. H.M. Evans & W.O. Thomas, pub.
\nChristopher Davies, Swansea. (7th edn. 1976 – there may be more recent ones).
\n[No ISBN given]
\nWelsh\/English, English\/Welsh.
\nLarge, detailed, contains many archaic words.<\/p>\n
Comment:
\n Definitely the best dictionary, though a bit unwieldy.
\n I find it rather old-fashioned and written more for Welsh speakers
\nthan English speakers.<\/p>\n
3.3 Geiriadur Termau
\n———————
\nGeiriadur Termau (Dictionary of terms)
\nCymraeg-Saesneg, English-Welsh. 544 pages.
\nGolygydd\/Editor: Jac L. Williams
\nPublisher: Gwasg Prifysgol Cymru, Caerdydd (University of Wales Press,
\n Cardiff), 1973.
\nISBN: 0-7083-0999-2
\n>From the Introduction: ‘This dictionary reflects the effort of many people
\n engaged in education in Wales to produce lists of terms required for the
\n teaching of a number of school subjects through the medium of Welsh.’<\/p>\n
Comment:
\n Seems quite comprehensive, but is probably more use to intermediate or
\nadvanced learners than to beginners.<\/p>\n
3.4 Y Geiriadur Newydd
\n———————–
\n‘Y Geiriadur Newydd’ , pub. Christopher Davies, Swansea.
\nA more compact version of Y Geiriadur Mawr.<\/p>\n
Comment:
\n I use Y Geiriadur Newydd, as it consists essentially of the modern Welsh part
\nof Y Geiriadur Mawr (all the obsolete words removed).<\/p>\n
3.5 Y Geiriadur Bach
\n———————
\n‘Y Geiriadur Bach’ , pub. Christopher Davies, Swansea.
\nWelsh\/English, English\/Welsh.
\nSmall, genuinely pocket-sized, tiny type, limited number of words.<\/p>\n
Comment:
\n Y Geiriadur Bach is my favourite dictionary – easy to carry around, good
\ninfo etc.<\/p>\n
3.6 Y Geiriadur Cyfoes
\n———————–
\n‘Y Geiriadur Cyfoes’
\nComment:
\n This is nothing more than a word-list and doesn’t deserve the
\nname “dictionary”.<\/p>\n
3.7 Y Geiriadur Prifysgol Cymru
\n——————————-
\n‘Y Geiriadur Prifysgol Cymru’
\nComment:
\n This is the only good dictionary in Welsh – unfortunately, it
\nweighs a ton, and only covers words from “a” to “obo” at the present time
\n(new parts arrive regularly). One day they promise to publish a complete
\nCD-ROM version, but I don’t see it happening before the next century.<\/p>\n
3.8 The Great Dictionary
\n————————-
\nComment:
\n Those in the know may have heard about the Great Dictionary being
\nproduced at UCNW [University College of North Wales] Bangor. It is primarily
\nEnglish-to-Welsh, but it will have a Welsh-to-English cross-reference. It is
\na truly complete dictionary, with every possible expression or word-use in
\nEnglish painstakingly reproduced and explained in Welsh. It’s huge.
\n Unfortunately, it’s been in production for about eighteen years, which is
\n15 years longer than anybody thought it would take.
\n The good news is that it looks to be coming out some time in 1993! Save
\nup your pennies, dysgwyr [learners], it is sure to be indispensable. And
\nexpensive. As I said, it’s huge. Bigger than the Geiriadur Prifysgol Cymru.<\/p>\n
————————————————————————–<\/p>\n
4 GRAMMAR BOOKS, ETC.
\n———————-<\/p>\n
NB: These books are all in English.<\/p>\n
4.1 Gramadeg Cymraeg Cyfoes
\n—————————-
\nGramadeg Cymraeg Cyfoes (Contemporary Welsh Grammar), published by
\nD. Brown a’i Feibion Cyf., Y Bontfaen, Morgannwg (D. Brown and Sons Ltd.,
\nY Bontfaen, Glamorgan). 1976. Produced by the National Language Unit
\nof Wales. [No ISBN number given in book].<\/p>\n
From the Foreword: ‘This grammar of standardised colloquial Welsh first
\nappeared as part of an ‘O’ level text book Cymraeg Cyfoes III intended
\nfor use in schools. Demand for a similar description of spoken Welsh
\ngrammar resulted in the publication of this book.’<\/p>\n
Comment:
\n Clearly presented, deals with the actual spoken language rather than the
\nliterary form, seems comprehensive enough.
\n A very good reference book for Welsh grammar.
\n I second this recommendation. I found this grammar much more useful than
\nthe others recommended.<\/p>\n
4.2 Y Geiriau Bach
\n——————-
\nY Geiriau Bach: Idioms for Welsh learners
\nAuthor: Cennard Davies
\nPublisher: J. D. Lewis a’i Feibion Cyf. (J. D. Lewis and Sons Ltd.),
\n Gwasg Gomer, Llandysul, Dyfed, Cymru\/Wales. 1987
\nISBN: 0-86383-332-2<\/p>\n
Contains Welsh idiomatic expressions with English translations. Each
\n idiom has an example of usage in Welsh, with an English translation.<\/p>\n
Comment:
\n Fascinating! More for intermediate learners than for beginners.
\n It covers the more subtle meanings of common prepositions and particles,<\/p>\n
4.3 A Guide to Correct Welsh
\n—————————–
\nA Guide to Correct Welsh
\nAuthor: Morgan D. Jones
\nPublisher: J. D. Lewis a’i Feibion Cyf. (J. D. Lewis and Sons Ltd.),
\n Gwasg Gomer, Llandysul, Dyfed, Cymru\/Wales. 1976, 1990 (Two printings).
\nSBN: 85088-441-1
\nGrammar-book in English giving both the new colloquial and the traditional
\n literary usage. More detail than Gramadeg Cymraeg Cyfoes.<\/p>\n
Comment:
\n Tends towards the more formal use of the language. May have more detail
\nthan a learner wants at his\/her stage, so it’s more for intermediate or
\nadvanced learners than for beginners.<\/p>\n
———————————————————————–<\/p>\n
5 SPECIALIST WELSH BOOKSHOPS
\n—————————–<\/p>\n
Siop Pendref, 12-14 Cae Ffynnon, Bangor, Gwynedd, Cymru\/Wales LL57 1ER, UK.<\/p>\n
Oriel, Heol Ty’r Brodyr, Caerdydd\/Cardiff, Cymru\/Wales, UK.
\n[also books by mail order]<\/p>\n
Y Lolfa, Talybont, Dyfed, Cymru\/Wales, SY24 5HE, UK.
\nTel: From within the UK: Talybont (097-086) 304
\n From outside the UK: 011-44-97086-304
\nTalybont’s phone numbers were supposed to change in 1992. If the
\nabove doesn’t work, try (0970) 832-304 \/ 011-44-970-832304<\/p>\n
————————————————————————–<\/p>\n
6 MAGAZINES
\n————<\/p>\n
6.1 Prentis
\n————
\nThere is a magazine for Welsh learners, ‘Prentis’ ,
\npublished six times a year. Write for current charges to:<\/p>\n
Prentis, Gwasg Taf Cyf., 99 Heol Woodville, Cathays, Caerdydd\/Cardiff,
\nCymru\/Wales, CF2 4DY, UK.<\/p>\n
Comment:
\n It’s almost a Welsh course in itself – each issue starts with
\nmaterial for beginners, and ends with quite advanced stuff. So with each
\nissue you progress a little further.<\/p>\n
6.2 Mela
\n———
\n‘Mela’ is a women’s magazine in Welsh, and is not
\nspecifically aimed at learners. It is published monthly by:<\/p>\n
Mela, Stiwdio Mei, 32 Stryd yr Wyddfa, Pen-y-groes, Caernarfon, Gwynedd,
\nCymru\/Wales, LL54 6NG, UK.<\/p>\n
————————————————————————–<\/p>\n
7 RESIDENTIAL COURSES
\n———————-<\/p>\n
7.1 In general
\n—————
\nThe Welsh Joint Education committee has published a pamphlet called “Dysgu
\nCymraeg? – All you need to know about Learning Welsh” which has a lot of
\naddresses. Write to:<\/p>\n
WJEC\/Cyd-bwyllgor Addysg Cymru, 245 Rhodfa’r Gorllewin, Caerdydd\/Cardiff,
\nCymru\/Wales, CF5 2YX, UK.<\/p>\n
Another address for the WJEC, for information on Welsh classes in Wales:
\nWJEC, Ty Arlbee, Heol y Brodyr Llwydion, Caerdydd (Cardiff), Cymru (Wales).<\/p>\n
7.2 National Language Centre
\n———————————–
\nCanolfan Iaith Genedlaethol (National Language Centre), Nant Gwrtheyrn,
\nLlithfaen, Pwllheli, Gwynedd, Cymru\/Wales, LL53 6PA, UK.
\nTel. From within UK: Llithfaen (075 885) 334\/335
\n From outside UK: +44-75-885-334\/335
\nThis is one of the most famous residential Welsh language learning centres.<\/p>\n
Comment:
\n They are quite cheap, and open all the year round (I spent 20 days
\nthere in February a couple of years back, and got individual tutorship for
\nmuch of the time, being one of the few people there at that time of year).
\nTheir Prospectus 1992-93 contains info on their own courses and a lot of info
\non other courses in Wales (also correspondance-courses).<\/p>\n
7.3 Hill College, Abergavenny
\n——————————
\nThere are courses for learners of Welsh at all levels at the Hill
\nCollege, Abergavenny, Wales.
\nCourses are the weekends of 16-18 Oct 92 and 29-31 Jan 93
\nCost is approx 70 pounds for the weekend, fully residential.
\nFor more details, contact:<\/p>\n
The Hill Residential College, Pen-y-Pound, Abergavenny, Gwent, NP7 7RP
\nTelephone: From within UK: 0873-855221
\n From outside UK: +44-873-855221
\nFax: 0873-854817<\/p>\n
7.4 University of Wales
\n————————
\nThe Extramural Studies Department at Bangor offers “wlpan” (intensive
\nWelsh-learning courses).<\/p>\n
Try Aberystwyth’s Welsh department if you want to do a university course
\non Welsh as a non-Welsh speaker.<\/p>\n
—————————————————————————<\/p>\n
8 OVERSEAS RESOURCES
\n———————<\/p>\n
If there are others in the San Francisco Bay Area
\ninterested in out of the ordinary books on
\nCeltic themes, I would suggest Alicorn Books in The City.<\/p>\n
—————————————————————————<\/p>\n
9 MISCELLANEOUS
\n—————-<\/p>\n
9.1 The London Welsh Centre
\n—————————-
\nThe London Welsh Centre is at:
\n157 Grays Inn Road, London, WC1 (071 837 3722 and 071 837 4873)
\nLots of events happen there, including a Welsh choir which regularly has
\nattendences of over 80 people! I don’t know if it’s mixed voices or just men.<\/p>\n
9.2 Plaid Cymru
\n—————-
\nPlaid Cymru [the Welsh Nationalist Party] has a London branch (contact via
\nPlaid Cymru’s head office at:
\n51 Heol yr Eglwys Gadeiriol, Caerdydd\/Cardiff, Cymru\/Wales, UK.<\/p>\n
9.3 The London Welsh School
\n————————
\nThe London Welsh school (day school for children aged 4-11, nursery school)
\n265 Willesden Lane, London, NW2 5JG Tel: 081 459 2690<\/p>\n
9.4 The Celtic League
\n———————-
\nThe Celtic League. Contact: Merfyn Phillips, Parc y Ffrier, Llandudnoch,
\nDyfed, Cymru\/Wales, UK.<\/p>\n
9.5 The London Association for Celtic Education
\n————————————————
\nLACE (The London Association for Celtic Education) – contact:
\nLACE, Roger Casement Irish Centre, Eastgate Building, 131 St John’s Way,
\nLondon, N19 071 281 3225<\/p>\n
9.6 Welsh classes in London
\n—————————-
\nCraig Cockburn (cockburn@edieng.enet.dec.com) has details on various Welsh
\nclasses in London.<\/p>\n
————————————————————————–<\/p>\n
10 BRETON AND CORNISH
\n———————-<\/p>\n
10.1 Breton info
\n—————–
\nProf J Ian Press, Russian, Queen Mary and Westfield College,
\nUniversity of London, Mile End Road, London E1 4NS (071 975 555)
\nmay be able to assist with Breton, and there is a Breton correspondence
\ncourse available through:
\nSkol Ober, Gwaremm, Leurven, 22310 Plufur, Bretagne, via France<\/p>\n
10.2 Cornish info
\n——————
\nThe Cornish Language board:
\nSecretary: Wella Brown, Chi an Gell, 9 Frith Road, Saltash, Kernow\/Cornwall<\/p>\n
There is a London Cornish Association, and an active Cornish society based
\nat the City Lit, Stukely Street, Drury Lane, WC2B 5LJ 071-242 9872<\/p>\n
—————————————————————————
\nGrateful thanks are due to the following for their contributions:<\/p>\n
homerk@vtvm1.cc.vt.edu (Kimberley Homer)
\n warrenk@cix.compulink.co.uk (Warren Kovach)
\n jdick@umd5.umd.edu (Judith Dick)
\n brynach@vax.ox.ac.uk (Sio+n Brynach)
\n Donna@Clemson.edu (Donna White)
\n briony@cstr.ed.ac.uk (Briony Williams)
\n johansc@hedda.uio.no (Johan Schimanski)
\n jtm@COM.SLB.FGS.FGSSU1 (John T. McCranie)
\n librik@cory.berkeley.edu (David Librik)
\n kakleman@acpub.duke.edu (Kubilay Akleman)
\n spxsjm@CF.THOR (Mr S J Morris)
\n cockburn@COM.DEC.ENET.EDIENG (Craig Cockburn)<\/p>\n
—
\nJames Moore \/| james@wrs.com
\nWind River Systems |\/ Alameda, California
\n\t “Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half
\n\t\t\t didn’t mean anything at all”<\/p>\n
